I will try to respond to your text with the topics you’ve included:
“A counselor, David Seamands, summed up his career this way: Many years ago I was driven to the conclusion that the two major causes of most emotional problems among evangelical Christians are these: the failure to understand, receive, and live out God’s unconditional grace and forgiveness; and the failure to give out that unconditional love, forgiveness, and grace to other people. . . . We read, we hear, we believe a good theology of grace. But that’s not the way we live. The good news of the Gospel of grace has not penetrated the level of our emotions.” - Philip Yancey, What's So Amazing About Grace?
Celebrations in church baptism, child dedication, lives changes
Repentance and confession
Pride
Don’t want to be the center of attention but not the person who is walked away from
Paul’s questions
1) “My hope has been to gain some clarity on things you said over text message.” - I appreciate you, Paul. I appreciate your willingness to talk more about what has been bothering me. At the same time I hesitate to say too much because I want to honor our Father and not hurt you or anyone else. I know perfectly well that what I say in words ‘can and will be used against me’ if taken the wrong way.
I’ve read and re-read James 3. I do not want to bash the church nor be negative toward specific people. Everyone is fighting a battle of sin, me included for sure. My conclusion is that I’ve changed in the past few years and my views have become more specific about growth in Christ’s love. I’ve recognized my self absorption with wanting others to admire my viewpoints. James 3:16 - “For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice”. My selfish ambition to be a something only Christ can be is a process of continual repentance. I do not want to just play church with an illusion that I’m holy. I must guard myself to not hurt others, to not be divisive, or cause harm to you. Nor do I want to become resentful. I want to love my Saviod, not any status with others.
2) “I certainly have no intention of arguing with you over anything but there are things that I would be genuinely curious to hear you expand on.” So here goes:
I know that I do not have full answers to your questions, only my viewpoint which may be tainted by my own sin. I do not want to allow my frustrations and disappointments to ruminate and let them become sources of bitterness a year from now or ten years from now. Having worked with individuals and families who have gone through tremendous loss and pain, I’m probably hyper sensitive to church people who come across insensitive or indifferent. I’m hyper sensitive to issues of callous indifference, lack of follow up when I’ve expressed my own needs or the needs of others. I’ve worked with families who continue to live in pain from a family member’s suicide, or from a tragedy drug abuse, cutting, depression, and grief have accumulated in my own baggage. I realize I cannot talk to anyone about those continuing stories, just as much you can’t, die to confidentiality. Their hurts have an impact on me, changing me to be different than I was. As a result, I want more from friendships - safety, understanding and genuine interest.
When I’ve brought up issues like that with a few church attendees, the reaction has been “you shouldn’t talk like that”, or you aren’t praying enough”. When I’ve tried to share the joy I’m having in a discipling relationship, saying “wouldn’t you want to join or start one yourself?”, the response has been “who has the time for that” or “who do you think you are.”
I’m not past the accusation of being told by two church leaders that “Bob, you are arrogant and prideful! You are dividing the church!” I realize that I am prideful and have a lot to learn about being humble and telling others how to live their lives. I’ve tried to recalculate my motives, acknowledging my self righteousness and ways that I think I’m right on some church related issues. I’ve tried to be silent, not say my opinion, blend in, not be up front and center. But when church members repeatedly walk away from me to avoid me, I question whether I can reconcile those relationships. On a related issue, another church leader told me that there was a lot of talk that I’ve always been in Doug Shada’s back pocket. They meant it as criticism but I’m taking it as a compliment. Doug is long gone but is there an effort to purge LFF of Doug’s influence?
A related issue is the fact that I trust medical doctors. Some church attendees have accused me of trusting science more than God. Another attendee said “I’m not afraid to die! Are you?” So…do I want to go along with the view of not trusting human institutions? I respect others’s opinions but I’ve evidently come across too strong with my views.
3) “Why do you think our church lacks a culture of discipleship?” I’m not sure of a correct answer at all. Most church’s struggle with discipleship, other than implementing programs and sermons. But building discipling relationships as a passion must be Spirit driven, not program driven..two or more people must set the example. Most of us have not been trained to be disciple makers but I’m trying to learn, following Activate Global’s example of using the Oikos map. LFF has had more opportunities than most to be inspires to be disciple makers themselves, inspires to be the example of the area. I’m trying to read as much as I can and listen to the leaders at http://www.discipleship.org. In addition, hearing stories from Activate Global, Martin Simiyu, and DeePak Niihau each inspire me to utilize the Oikos format. Discipleship happens when the common attendee sees leaders doing it, with stories being shared. The church should function as a hospital for the lonely, grieving, discouraged and disappointed, not a hotel for the holy huddle, safe because of their Heaven insurance (author Bill Hull)..
4) “Why has it been so hard for you to engage other members here?” To answer this, my own conclusion it is my fault in the way others perceive me, yes, it’s been my pride as a barrier. I’ve come across far too prideful to even be considered as a friend by many. I’ve said too much and evidently come across as arrogant with a platform or a hidden agenda. But there has been no hidden agenda, honestly. I apologize for coming across in this manner. I need to reconsider my approach and recalculate my motives. I do not want to end up being that old person who can only talk about the weather and complain about the government. I’m 71 and I do not want to see this perceived pride and crotchetiness build in me. Again, it must be my fault, because I find myself enjoying deep relationships outside the LFF community, so it has to be my fault with this group.
5) “What has lead you to believe that our church is becoming Isolated from the community and the culture?” Most churches are becoming isolated islands, despite the illusion we tell ourselves. With the de churching of America, churches are losing people right and left. I’ve worked in the public schools and my meanest critics have always been church people. Church attendees tend to be hypocrites in living out their beliefs (Pew and Barna research). Regarding the Great Commission, I’m the no example but want to be. One huge reason for disconnection is the lack of emphasis on repentance and confession. It’s been a long time since I’ve heard a testimony of a changed life. When I taught Sunday Achool, I tried to include m personal examples of weakness, mistakes and good ups. The response in class was that I shouldn’t talk like that. Repentance also involves celebrations of baptism and child dedications, demonstrating changes or committed lives for Christ. LFF has not had those milestones of celebrations which are inspiring.
Also, I do not feel comfortable with the national trend of home schooling and dominion theology by so many home school advocates. Not that LFF promotes this view but it’s been a source of disappointment for me as it has grown (https://ca.thegospelcoalition.org/columns/detrinitate/r-j-rushdoony-a-patriarch-for-modern-theonomy/) (https://www.reformedreader.org/rbs/tarba.htm). so…I feel isolated in my belief that this trend is biblically wrong. There are many similar articles and books. One source I’ve enjoyed keeping up with is Alex Harris, attorney, who has rethought his upbringing as a home schooled young person. Alex and his twin brother wrote “Do Hard Things” as teens (https://www.therebelution.com/books/do-hard-things/), a great resource, but have since changed their minds regarding following dominion theology. Early on as a parent, I went through the Bill Gothard training, which has been a foundation for current home school trends, promoting home school networks. Afterwards I didn’t feel comfortable with it. The trend has grown tremendously despite the dysfunction of Mr Gothard’s and his followers. So…I’ve felt alone in my thinking for a long time, feeling disconnected I totally respect tbe ‘right’ to home school but not put down public schools. Comments by LFF attendees to me about the about the debauchery and immoral nature of public schools are not appreciated, all because of the prohibition of prayer in public schools. I know I’ve reacted in a strong self righteous manner to those comments by saying ‘I know of Bible studies among students or teacher, and teachers, administrators and bus drivers who pray for their students everyday.’ My response has not been well received. I should have let those comments go.
Over the past few years, many have criticized giving to missions. Some say that LFF gives to foreign missions at the expense of local missions. So…when I suggest promoting what the Todd Becker Foundation is doing, especially with their school outreach events and with the discipleship weekend being held in March, silence. I do not understand why LFF cannot publicly promote the Todd Becker Foundation’s efforts.
6) “Does that stem from my preaching and ministry in particular?” I’ve appreciated your exegetical approach to the Bible. My favorite podcasts are preachers who use that approach. But I was most upset with a couple of sermons - a) Sodom and Gomorrah, b) The circumcision sermon, the last two sermons I heard at LFF. Again, I’m over sensitive regarding issues of evil and sexual abuse I’ve sat with students contemplating suicide and victims of sexual attacks. These sermons seemed dark and edgy and could have pushed a depressed person over the edge. At least that’s how I felt as if I were sitting with the sexually abused when you used the term gang rape in the Sodom / Gomorrah sermon. Emotional, I flipped out and heard nothing more. People need to hear hope, love, faith in God’s promises, not the darkness of the world.
One issue that has disturbed me is drinking alcohol. Even though the Bible does not condemn using alcohol or other depressant / stimulant substances, my personal conclusion is that this is a moral obligation issue, NOT legalism. I’ve worked under four public school superintendents and could have been fired as a school counselor for drinking in public. I’ve listened to several students who have suffered abuse by an intoxicated parent. Even today, I received an email from a former student who expressed his need to forgive his father for beating him with the butt of a gun while the dad was intoxicated. Another former student killed a man in a drunk driving accident and spent six years in the NE penitentiary.He and I corresponded by letter and over time we grew closer. I visited him at the pen and he has since visited us in our home, thanking me for being an example to him, listening to his story, and encouraging his now ‘no drinking lifestyle.’ As a public leader, I think it is imperative that we set an example for everyone to live a clean life, above reproach on these issues. I’ve never said to my students that I didn’t drink or used substances, yet students asked me countless times why I lived this lifestyle. My conclusion is that the evil unseen forces of this world use substance use, including alcohol, to undermine faith. If you want to drink or use other drugs in private, that is entirely a different issue. My advice, please do not promote issues that the evil forces of this world are using to destroy families.
7) “What needs to change and how do you see that happening?” I know that I do not have answers because it’s quite obvious I do not fit in at LFF. I don’t belong and feel like a refugee Every group has a personality and not everyone has the same perspective. LFF has changed and is changing from what it was. But I’ve changed. This can be good but I feel prompted to look for something different. No church is perfect and my presence will make it even more imperfect. I have a lot to learn. Developing a plan for one on one discipleship seems like a solution, but others need to catch the passion. I’m finding that young dads and single young men who are thirsty for this type of relationship. I want to be obedient.
8) “How can I and the church at large do a better job of caring for people? “This is a problem in every church. Every church needs a pastor who has an attention to detail. I realize pastors have a life at home but when someone requests prayer or expresses confidential needs - there had better be a quick response. The same is true for those who are church leaders - - in effect those who are in charge of the attention to these details. If I die before Sandy, I do not want to have set her up for huge discouragement because we have been in a setting where people didn’t like me., nor cares enough to follow up on my prayer requests. She will have to suffer from my pride, self righteousness and arrogance.
9) “How do we address bitter and resentful people in a non-confrontational way?” Well, that’s difficult to answer because i could be resentful for all the above issues. It’s obvious that I’ve been confronted, and I acknowledge my hypersensitive response to each issue I’ve experienced. I bring my counseling baggage with me, but I sense a huge distrust of counselors in general at LFF There has to be room for acceptance and respect in a church but I don’t see it happening for me. But I qualify that by saying Loren and Maggie do a wonderful job as well as Craig and Heather. Craig is a former student of mine, so we have built a long term relationship over time. I have the highest respect for him and his siblings.
I’ve worked with angry and explosive students all my adult life. Sitting down with them, listening to them, reassuring them has been the best approach. Being a peace maker diffuses anger. Confrontation and calloused indifference inflame anger. Many say that hate is the opposite of love, but indifference is just as lethal as hate. When I sense that no one cares, it takes even more effort to work at reconciling the relationship.
Conclusion.
I regret not voicing my concerns to you sooner than dumping whole load on you. But I think I’ve shared quite a bit with you in the past. I DO NOT want you to take offense at my reaction / response to so many issues within LFF because I’m quite sure the same things are taking place in nearly every church group in the U.S.. the devil has used disappointment and discouragement in me, but I want to do better, be a better person. I want to convey to you my aloneness at LFF and being pushed aside as irrelevant and unwelcome. I hope others do not feel that way and I don’t think they do. I assure you that I’m not talking negatively to anyone about LFF I’ve not shared my answers to your questions to anyone. But I know that my honesty to you can and will come back to haunt me
I’ve changed since my retirement, as if I am having an old man’s crisis, seeing what I’ve hoped would happen within my church go up in smoke. Like I said earlier, I have a lot of hyper sensitive counseling baggage with me. I’ve accumulated the hurts, disappointments and grief of others from my 46 years of working with people, having listened to stories of many who have been victimized and traumatized. I had hoped for close relationships, and to have a contributing role at LFF. But as criticism and a mocking attitude toward me by a couple of individuals mounted, I stepped back, thinking that my silence and sitting in the pew would be better. But when some attendees continued to not talk to me and walk away from my presence, I finally got the point. I do not expect to be in the race for any approval rating anywhere, I just want a safe place to attend church, to worship our risen Lord without distraction. I’ve become the problem for others, and I really have no hope of building the types of relationships at LFF I have had in the past. I had hoped to have that kind of relationship with you, Paul, but I certainly have blown it with my answers to your questions. Paul and Barnabas had their disagreements at times. I wish you great success as you follow God’s call in your heart, and I will continue to pray that keep your vision on Christ the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:25-27
[25] that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. [26] If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.[27] Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
Praying - Jesus, because of Your death and resurrection, Paul and I are part of Your body—the global Church. Help me to take the role I play in it seriously, to not cause division but greater unity The choices I make reflect the way Your Church is perceived. So use me to bring Your hope, love, and joy to the world. Use me to build others up. Bring revival to Your people, so that way Your Body represents You authentically and powerfully. Help me to find the right people to ignite Your fire in their hearts. Amen.
